Appreciation and Question

Appreciation and Question 2016-07-09T00:02:36+00:00

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  • grnwavdav
    Participant
    Post count: 2
    #9710 |

    Hello everyone,

    Let me begin by expressing my deep appreciation for the digital reference material on this website. Just over the past few months this site has been extremely helpful due to the large database of listings, pictures, and cross-references. Thank you so much for putting all of this information together in one place.

    My recent trips to this reference site arose out of the need to attribute a few Fly Eagle Cents varieties I was happy to have found. Two of these recent varieties are both 1857 pieces and I have identified one as a DDO-001 (Snow 3) and one as a DDO-006 (Snow 4).

    In addition to using this wonderful site, I also have a few Snow guides and the F.IND.ERS Report Flying Eagle and Indian Cent Die Varieties book. In a effort to accurately identify the two Flying Eagle Cent varieties I found, I studied many pictures and descriptions of DDO-001 (Snow 3) and DDO-006 (Snow 4). I had a very difficult time distinguishing the two dies at first. My coins are circled making the wing tip and die scratch markers impossible to see. As a result, I was left to comparing the date positions and distinct doubling of each die. At first I wasn’t sure if both coins were the same die or different ones. Both DDO-001 and DDO-006 are very similar. In the end, I was able to determine with greater certainty that I did have an example of each die.

    Looking back to my FINDERS book, I see that Steve and Flynn cross-references FND-004 with FS-002 (FS-105), Snow 4B, and Breen 1928. However, Fivaz and Stanton list FS-002 (FS-105) as being a Snow 3. Further, the pictures in the FINDERS book depict doubling consistent with DDO-001 (Snow 3, and FS-105) not Snow 4. Moreover, the die markers listed in the book are identical to the markers listed on this site for DOO-001 (die scratch from T in UNITED to wing and broken wing tip).

    My thought is that the dies are so similar that the cross-references can be easily mixed up. Further, I see that this site also lists DD0-006 has Snow-4, and FND-004, and Breen 1928. I am thinking that FND-004 should be cross-referenced with DDO-001 instead. What are your thoughts on FND-004? Could it really be DDO-001/Snow-3 and has anyone noticed this before?

    David Miller


    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 117

    David,

    Thanks so much for your post. I’ve been very busy the last few weeks, so I apologize for not seeing your post sooner.

    Some of the varieties in the FINDERS and Kevin’s MPD book were misreferenced or listed twice. It doesn’t make it easy that many of the varieties in Rick’s book were miss cross-referenced to Kevin’s book. The Cherry Picker’s guide also has some errors.

    The discrepancies you are seeing is what led me to make this website. I started a PhD at the University of Oklahoma this month, so some of the books are still in boxes. Please give me a few days to dig into everything.

    I’ve done my best to make sure the website is accurate, but I have caught a few mistakes. The database is huge and it is tough to validate everything. Many of the discrepancies I couldn’t reconcile until I acquired the varieties myself. Currently, I have over 500 different IHC varieties. Many of them are not photographed, but I’m making progress steadily.

    Russ


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 117

    David, you have a great eye and thanks for taking the time to point out the discrepancy. I have made a mistake in the online listing.

    Okay, so here are some of my notes:

    1. I used the file names of the black and white photos to help attribute each variety when Kevin sent me his files. I didn’t change them, for example: https://indianvarieties.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/57DDO6B.jpg

    2. Some of the same varieties were listed twice in his reference and I had to consolidate the number and files into the earliest number.

    3. What I listed as DDO-001 matches FND-004 (Snow-3) from FINDERS, but the pictures on my website are of a later die state than what is pictured in FINDERS and Snow. The letters are deteriorating heavily, but look at the lump on the top of the C near the serif and also the middle bar of F in OF. The reason that you can’t see the gap in the eye of the eagle at 9:00 in the photos online is because of die deterioration. So, yes I made a mistake in the cross-reference. DDO-001 as pictured on this website also matches Snow-3, which is perhaps most evident by looking at the crack or die line going from the top right of the M to the rim. I will correct the mistake.

    4. I don’t have my Cherry Pickers books moved yet, so I can’t speak for their listing. I decided not to include their reference on the website because it appears to have several errors and the guides are not a definitive reference for any one series of coins. Also, the varieties they picked to put into the book and leave out do not appear to accurately reflect the true desirability of the collecting base for FECs or IHCs, at least in my experience. Nonetheless, it is a great resource for getting one’s feet wet.

    5. Now that I’ve corrected the error in the cross-listing… we have a new challenge. What is the DDO-006? Has it been listed by Snow or is it a new variety?

    Cheers,

    Russ


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

    grnwavdav
    Participant
    Post count: 2

    Russ,

    Thank you for taking the time to investigate the listings and cross-listings for those dies. I really appreciate it. Further, thank you for the note about the “bump on the top of the C” die marker for DDO-001. That was very helpful. As for your DDO-006, I believe you have the Snow number correct (Snow 4). I see evidence of that match in the strong doubled upper leg of the N. However, I can not speak to the Breem or FIND cross-references for DDO-006.

    In addition, I agree with your assessment of the Cherry Picker’s Guide and I can understand your hesitation to include their references.

    Well, thank you for all you do and I look forward to participating in future discussions on this forum.

    David


    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 117

    David,

    Thanks for pointing out the error. Don’t hesitate to contact me if you see more.

    I’ve now updated the website database and the offline backup. You have a keen eye! Keep it up!

    Russ


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

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