1888 MPD-013 photo study

1888 MPD-013 photo study 2015-04-24T14:54:21+00:00

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  • DVCollectorDVCollector
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    Post count: 103

    I was quite fortunate to pick this coin off ebay, since the latest Snow guide lists this as S-15, with only “one example seen”–so make this #2,3,4 etc. At least, we now have pictures for the site! πŸ˜€

    obverse

    This example is in a good enough grade that most denticle detail remains. The variety is described as having an MPD just below the right edge of the “1”, and an 8 below each of the last 2 digits. Honestly though, if the 1 were not called out, I would not have assumed one.

    MPDs

    The MPD under the last 8 is the boldest, and frankly it looks rather odd–what is that big lump directly underneath the last 8? It almost appears to me where two MPDs have crossed. Consider a situation where one digit is impressed in the denticles, followed by another intersecting the last. The first MPD has already made an impression, so where the last MPD crosses, this intersection would be pushed deeper into the die. Could that account for the bulge? This may help explain what appears to be a second mark crossing below and to the right of the higher arc. Or am I just seeing things?

    Note: I am using these boxes to point out areas in question to better leave to your interpretation–rather than point to or circle details directly.

    last 88

    And here’s a closeup of the first “18”. I have boxed around where the “1” MPD is said to be. If that is bold enough to be considered an MPD, then what is happening underneath the first “8”? Again–I leave it up to your judgment. πŸ™‚

    18 MPD

    One last shot of the date area–in grayscale and slightly different lighting.


    • This topic was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by DVCollector DVCollector.
    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 124

    Nice find! I thought that the MPD looked kind of odd myself. Snow saw a 64RB. But in his picture, there seems to be a thread-like hubthrough running between the two misplaced 8s. I can see it somewhat on your specimen.

    If a digit punch were to strike the denticles of a die, it would leave an impression on the highest points of the die before the most incuse. On the die, the denticles are raised triangles and the ‘teeth’ are scooped into the die. So for any blemish to occur on top of, or completely through the raised denticle on a stuck coin, the object making the blemish would need to be in the deepest recesses of the die.

    For a digit punch, this really isn’t possible without destroying one or more of the die’s raised triangles between the denticles, and then going even deeper to leave an impression in the middle of the denticle.

    What I’m getting at is this. For specimens that have a fiber hub through in the denticles, you very often see the fiber going through the denticle on a stuck coin, not just bridging two denticles like a MPD. This happens because the fiber is most likely cotton and is flexible enough to get pressed into the denticle when it is hubbed.

    For this variety, it is my opinion that it shows attributes of both a hub through and a MPD. The so called misplaced 1 is somewhat similar to the oddity under the first 8, so who really knows. The hub through on this specimen may have been from a metallic fiber or extra metal that got between the hub and die because it is so strong and crude.

    Just my thoughts and thanks for posting!!


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Russ Russ.
    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 124

    Oh yeah I made a pic:


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 124

    BTW – I have a fantastic hub lint through from 1907 that shows a complete fiber about 5-6 denticles long. I still have the coin (MS) but can’t find the pics. It is a perfect example and needs to be rephotographed!


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

    DVCollectorDVCollector
    Moderator
    Post count: 103

    I took perhaps a dozen detailed pictures of the date area, and in some lighting angles that hubbed fiber really shows up. I was honestly wondering what that was, and it seems like a reasonable explanation–thanks for the input!

    If a digit punch were to strike the denticles of a die, it would leave an impression on the highest points of the die before the most incuse. On the die, the denticles are raised triangles and the β€˜teeth’ are scooped into the die.

    Right–and that’s what I’m driving at concerning the MPD under the last 8. In the deeper denticle area on the coin (or high point on the die), I am seeing a raised mark, whose arc crosses underneath to the SW SE of the other MPD. Since we’re pointing at stuff, I’ve added some arrows to the area in question. You know…I hate crossing my eyes in an effort to “see” something which isn’t actually there LOL. So I step back and re-visit things like this to get a fresh perspective. And yep–I still see it. Granted, I may be looking pretty close at these varieties, because I think some details don’t get covered well in variety guides. We both know that details are getting routinely missed. πŸ˜€


    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by DVCollector DVCollector.
    RussRuss
    Keymaster
    Post count: 124

    I have updated this variety page with your photos – do you happen to have one for the reverse?

    EDIT: By the way, I copy and pasted this convo into the reviews tab so that it can stick with that variety in the database. 1888 mpd-013


    Collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head pennies never made more cents!

    • This reply was modified 3 years ago by Russ Russ.
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